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The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

The Asurian Threat
The Asurians will be the Theurgy's new sworn enemies. On which side will Dyan Cardamone stand, having seen her family killed at Starbase 84? Everything from failed diplomatic talks to all-out battles may occur in this plotline.

  • Carrigan Trent tries to get through to Dyan Cardamone via proxy or by himself - Check!
  • Captain Ives + X number of Senior Staff talk with the Asurians. Outcome undecided. - Underway
  • Dyan Cardamone's further actions on the Theurgy undecided.

This one is still starting up, but I think it has a lot of potential. They might not be Klingons, but they could be a unique Theurgy canon threat! Check the thread Precarious Parlay on the board, and let me know if you all have more ideas to add to this one. :)

Best,

Auctor Lucan

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #1 –
As at least one of my characters has been dragged into a front line seat for this one, I'm very curious to see how it all plays out. Right now she's in a "sit and listen" mode, but that can't last forever.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #2 –
How about an offer to bury the hatchet with some champion combat?  They seem like a people who would go for something like that.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #3 –
The Asurians probably don't think the Federation, or Ives for that matter, are the type for trial by combat, but they'd probably be surprised and pleased to see the effort being made to reach out to them on their own level. And I think Dyan would love it too, by virtue of her being kind of a miniature gladiator herself lol!

As for Faye, is there any chance she could skim some information off of Dyan's mind? I don't want Brutus to be left totally helpless <:3c

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #4 –
I'd be all for picking up something, a very distinct, loudly thought thought. I've been playing up on the whole "Betazoids can't always read minds" that we encounter in canon with the Ferengi and quote 'a few others species', and using it as an excuse. Câroon's like Dr. Nicander are complete blanks, Cameloids are very murky, and i figured the Asurians might be too alien for Faye to get a solid read on until after she's been around them for a while.

But yeah, I'd love to have Faye do something in the conference call, but even just staying there listening is gonna fucking stress her like no ones business. which is great in its own right :D

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #5 –
After that Faye can unwind with Heather, whose mind is about as much fun to read as an attention deficit hyperactive squirrel on coffee doing crosswords, advanced mathematics, DNA splicing and an English essay on vienna sausagesall at once.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #6 –
I do think Faye's next post is going to be an anxiety fueled mental jump to conclusions about Ives sanity, dedication, and the sheer brashness that are the Asurians haha. All while trying to keep her mouth shut to show a unified front. After hearing the Queen go off about not being able to trust your own crew, there is no way Faye is going to speak up and risk saying something that might undermine the already tattered perception of Ives command abilities.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #7 –
For the Asurians,
Striker:  "Captain, I was able to scan and observe 'X' and 'Y' structural exploits, just say the word 'draw' I won't stop firing until you tell me to."

Faye: "What are you, the Terminator?" *Upon not being able to read through his mental firewall*

Lt. Commander Leon "Striker" Marquez
Chief Tactical Officer, USS Theurgy
"No one left behind."

Ensign James "Jimmy" Mariner
Security Officer, USS Theurgy
"Showtime!"

Lieutenant (J.G.) Alessia "Angel" Garcia
Valravn Fighter Pilot, USS Theurgy
"You're not the only one with a gun,"

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #8 –
Who knew that Faye was joining a crew of officers all adeptly trained in mental resistances ! Maquez, Trent. Nicander, Sera, Ives and Sar-Unga all too alien. Why, there's naught for a telepath to do!


*Teases*

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Brutus on
Who knew that Faye was joining a crew of officers all adeptly trained in mental resistances ! Maquez, Trent. Nicander, Sera, Ives and Sar-Unga all too alien. Why, there's naught for a telepath to do!

Slightly off topic: that would actually be a good wikipage.  What characters/races are more telepathically resistant/trained than others.
"I am Scion of the Ninth House, Warden of the Sacred Way, and Keeper of the Divine Scepter of Betazed...who are you?"
- - - Ambassador Tamren Jhenal, Diplomatic Attaché [Show/Hide]

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Brutus on
Who knew that Faye was joining a crew of officers all adeptly trained in mental resistances ! Maquez, Trent. Nicander, Sera, Ives and Sar-Unga all too alien. Why, there's naught for a telepath to do!


*Teases*

And ironically, the one in the crew who dislikes telepaths the most is also trained to resist them  :)
But, that said, we're probably straying a little off topic.  Personally, I would love to be in that room to mouth off against the Asurian queen, but with the threat to send representatives against one another in some sort of honor duel, I almost feel like Deacon and Sithick are going to be the pokemon thrown into that particular gym battle...

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #12 –
Somehow, if it's an honor dual I imagine it'll have to be Ives. Or maybe sar-unga.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #13 –
Okay, wait a minute, is it really canon that humans and not just Cardassians can undergo training to protect their minds from being read? I would like canon references for that because I am not quite sure neither Trent nor Marquez can.

As for a wiki page, noted and added to the list!

Best,

Auctor Lucan

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #14 –
From Memory Alpha regarding telepathy:
Quote
Some species, such as Ferengi and Dopterians, could not be read telepathically, which may be attributable to the structure of their brains. (TNG: "Ménage à Troi"; DS9: "The Forsaken") The Sheliak were so alien that they were incomprehensible to telepaths. (TNG: "The Ensigns of Command")

Also from MA, regarding emotions
Quote
Strong primitive emotions, like hate, can block a telepath's ability to read the mind of a person. As a prisoner of the Talosians, Vina attempted to block the Talosians from reading her mind for years with primitive emotions.

This is what MA has to say on Cardassians and their mind training
Quote
The Cardassians were known for their photographic memories, which, per Dukat, were enabled by rigorous childhood training. Some, including Dukat, had the ability to resist a Vulcan mind meld, which Dukat explained as "simply a matter of discipline"
and
Quote
Cardassian children were often put into intensive mind-training programs, from as early as three or four. It is because of these mind-training programs that some Cardassians were able to resist a Vulcan mind meld.

And so, it looks as if Cardassians can resist a mind meld, but it says nothing about passive empathetic 'skimming'. However there are alternate ways to resist empaths, but either your brain has to be so differently structured that you wouldn't be human anymore, or you would tire yourself out with too much primitive emotion.

on another note, would you like me to post a brief 300 words on Dyan's emotions so Faye can respond with something, or save it for my next post after everyone else has posted?

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #16 –
I've searched high and low and couldn't find any way that humans were resistant to telepathy.  In most Star Trek episodes featuring telepathic dangers (Voyager's telepathic pitcher plant, dreaming aliens, and Botha) the human crewmembers were susceptible to telepathic assault.

The only thing I could find was DS9's Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges.  Julian Bashir was resistant to the Romulan Mind Probes, but he was genetically engineered.  And in the episode Extreme Measures, Sloan, a highly trained Section 31 operative, decided to kill himself when Bashir used those same Romulan devices on him.  So, this suggests that even he couldn't resist.

Sure, this is technology rather than naturally occurring, and the Romulans aren't known for their soft touch.  Being a superspy or high-ranking Starfleet officer in a galaxy filled with telepathic races must have some sort of training to avoid detection or interrogation.
"I am Scion of the Ninth House, Warden of the Sacred Way, and Keeper of the Divine Scepter of Betazed...who are you?"
- - - Ambassador Tamren Jhenal, Diplomatic Attaché [Show/Hide]

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #17 –
For what it's worth, I have been playing Faye as if Trent has mental defenses since that is what I'd been told before diving into the Asurian teleconference thread. If that's gonna be retconned lemme know.

And @FollowTomorrow I'd be all for any extra insight Faye can glean.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #18 –
It was never explicitly explained anywhere, but wouldn't it make sense that there might be some kind of conditioning for people privy to really sensitive information, so they can't get their minds pumped by any telepath walking by?

But if there is a need to retcon, @Brutus, might I suggest that instead Faye might pick up on, say, "outstanding mental discipline"?

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #19 –
Quote from: chXinya on
How about an offer to bury the hatchet with some champion combat?  They seem like a people who would go for something like that.

Zrinka is willing to help with champion combat as she loves that sort of thing. She knows Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and an ex-Marine, and she would love to beat the snot out of aliens to help the ship.
 

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #20 –
Yeah, I think a bit of retconning have to be done, but that being said, read below, @Brutus .

Now, I mean to sort out what I approve in terms of telepathic and empathic abilities, and I think it should be both plausible and fair. In regard to characters with these abilities that are not preforming a Vulcan mind-meld:

They can:
  • Read another character's currrent thoughts
  • Feel another character's current mood (angry, sad etc.)
  • Do so at varying distances depending on the strength of their abilities, but not through monitors, obviously.
  • Do the above with varying clarity depending on circumstances and vividness of thoughts and emotions. Example: Reading a person's thoughts while he is fishing and isn't thinking about anything in particular will not yield much at all.
  • Only read thoughts and feel emotions that are made perfectly clear in another writer's post, and not read something that shouln't be there according to the writer. Being too presumptuous in this regard equals godmoding, so please... please don't overuse these abilities in writing telepaths.

They can't:
  • Read non-current thoughts or feelings. Think of a character's mind as a map, and as the character thinks, a spotlight is moving across that map. The telepath may only be able to read what the spotlight is shining on.
  • Click some button and 'download' the entire family history of a character, or know all previous acquaintances in another person's memory.
  • 'Download' all the knowledge of secret Starfleet Intelligence information from someone who happens to pass by. Unless, of course, the intelligence operative in question is explicitly trying to solve some secret puzzle in his head at that exact moment, where the telepath will be reading the fitting of those pieces of the puzzles and not the entire context and scope of the image.
  • Do what touch-telepaths do, where the shows several times show Vulcans delving into minds and learning things as if they are accessing a library. The mind-meld is very different from reading current thoughts.

Does this make sense? This should be pretty fair and plausible, yes?

Best,

Auctor Lucan

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #21 –
As someone playing a half-Betazoid, it makes sense to me..

You won't have to worry about Zrinka. For her, her empathy skills are completely untrained and essentially more as a crippling effect.. I have had a chance to use it, but I was thinking more that whatever sense she gets will be confusing and probably more likely to be misjudged as she isn't very good with her own emotions.

So it would be like 'what the heck??' and either sarcasm or anger back.. which could be rather awkward.

or be just completely sucker-punched by some telepathy. like her brain has a big 'kick me' sign stuck on it.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Auctor Lucan on
Yeah, I think a bit of retconning have to be done, but that being said, read below, @Brutus .

Now, I mean to sort out what I approve in terms of telepathic and empathic abilities, and I think it should be both plausible and fair. In regard to characters with these abilities that are not preforming a Vulcan mind-meld:

They can:
  • Read another character's currrent thoughts
  • Feel another character's current mood (angry, sad etc.)
  • Do so at varying distances depending on the strength of their abilities, but not through monitors, obviously.
  • Do the above with varying clarity depending on circumstances and vividness of thoughts and emotions. Example: Reading a person's thoughts while he is fishing and isn't thinking about anything in particular will not yield much at all.
  • Only read thoughts and feel emotions that are made perfectly clear in another writer's post, and not read something that shouln't be there according to the writer. Being too presumptuous in this regard equals godmoding, so please... please don't overuse these abilities in writing telepaths.

They can't:
  • Read non-current thoughts or feelings. Think of a character's mind as a map, and as the character thinks, a spotlight is moving across that map. The telepath may only be able to read what the spotlight is shining on.
  • Click some button and 'download' the entire family history of a character, or know all previous acquaintances in another person's memory.
  • 'Download' all the knowledge of secret Starfleet Intelligence information from someone who happens to pass by. Unless, of course, the intelligence operative in question is explicitly trying to solve some secret puzzle in his head at that exact moment, where the telepath will be reading the fitting of those pieces of the puzzles and not the entire context and scope of the image.
  • Do what touch-telepaths do, where the shows several times show Vulcans delving into minds and learning things as if they are accessing a library. The mind-meld is very different from reading current thoughts.

Does this make sense? This should be pretty fair and plausible, yes?

Best,

Auctor Lucan

By and large that seems reasonable, yeah. I will point out that it varies based on the strength of the telepath. Lwaxana seemed to be able to probe a bit deeper than just surface thoughts if she put her mind to it, though she could never read Cardassians or Ferengi no matter how hard she tried. Empaths like Deanna, however, could begin to pick up very....slim impressions over time and exposure to specific Ferengi. But that was becuase of her half human nature. Faye, for instance, would be borked no matter how long she stayed around a Ferengi :)

Other things of note from the series was a mention that just because they are not touch telepaths does not mean that physical contact did nothing to enhance the effects. It did usually allow for a stronger 'read' on a person, and depending on the telepath, and how deeply involved they were with the recipient, could lead to a much, much deeper connection. It was even possible for Telepaths and Empaths to communicate their thoughts to non-telepaths, but only if there was a deep personal connection (Troi and Riker are the primary example when it comes to Betazoids, though not the only one. if i remember correctly, Lwaxana and her husband, Ian had that same connection.)

Also, *trained* telepaths can do a lot of what Vulcans can do - but Faye is not trained like that!

Regarding god modding - for the love of all things holy if i start to do that call me on it :D

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion

Reply #23 –
Well, I think that the easiest way to handle the "depends" conditions mentioned by Brutus is OOC agreement between writers, whether anything more than previously listed things are picked up or not. It could be beneficial to plot advancement in some cases that more things are picked up rather than less, so there is the possibility for that. To avoid risk of godmoding, however, we keep it at surface thoughts as a default unless anything more is agreed OOC.

Works, right?

Best,

Auctor Lucan
 
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