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Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #1
 So.... that looks cool
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Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #3
Ok... CBS has my attention, although I have to ask why these klingons look like the new movie klingons and not more traditional to the television series'?  And a species biologically determined to sense the coming of death...?  I've heard of some unusual racial abilities, but that has to be a new one.  BUT, that said, I'll give it a watch.

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #4
My opinion: meh

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #5
Ok... CBS has my attention, although I have to ask why these klingons look like the new movie klingons and not more traditional to the television series'? 

Because the only reason anyone cares about making new star trek anymore after the god awful enterprise series are those new reboot movies, also it's probably taking place in the alternate movie timeline.

Now that said I am super wary of anything that is going backwards in time rather than forwards. Especially since in the alternate movie timeline during Kirk's service the Klingon Federation war is apparently a cold war.

I don't think Klingons like their wars cold, and that felt dumb to me. Also it's an alternate timeline your not bound by things like TNG, you could just go forward and invent a new future.

Also Entperprise sucks and I hate all prequels prequels are never good.

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #6
They've said multiple times that this series is set in the prime universe. They changed the look of the Klingons because they wanted to continue to make them more alien....just like how they changed the look of the Klingon between tos and tmp. And man did ppl gripe back then z too XD



Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #8
I am actually very optimistic about this! Sonequa Martin-Green is awesome, Jason Isaacs is awesome. The Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon actress is also awesome (don't have time to look up her name). Awesome effects. Great set pieces. Plus, the mere fact that we have a new series to watch! What's not to like? :)

I know people want to keep things like they were on TNG and DS9 etc, but watching those shows now? With current competition? Oh, they have not aged well. The only way to make this work is to update it, even if it is a prequel series, so I will probably forgive anything they do.

Best,

Auctor Lucan

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #9
The more I watch this trailer, the more I think that Paramount just wants to push Axanar more into the gutter where they think that it belongs.

As for the Klingons, they are supposed to represent what's known as "Imperial Klingons" (I'm guessing here, no torches and pitchforks yet please) that are the full blood types that exist as opposed to the "Human Fusion" (the old term for what they referred to as the TOS Era Klingons before the whole..Augment situation..*shudder*)...so I'm guessing.

As for the uniforms..okay, if this is supposed to take place TEN years before the launch of April or Pike's version of the Enterprise then why are we having Enterprise-era looks to the Uniforms?

And yes..I do support Axanar but then again I'm crazy ;)

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #10
Oh boy, have I debated posting here. Mostly because I am a bitter guy at this point in my life and I am only just returning to the group, in my mind this is not the time to rock the boat and stir the hornet's nest, but I must speak my mind. Or at the very least rant like a crazy person for  a few paragraphs.

Needless to say I am unimpressed by this trailer. It's almost easier to pick things I like in it than to list off my many, and I mean many, complaints. I'll put it simply just to get it out of the way. I am a canon junkie. I adore learning about the canon and when they said they were returning to the Prime Timeline™ I was very excited. With this trailer out I can now state that it looks like they are going with the now very broken Kelvin Timeline™. I will explain.

It says it takes place 10 years before Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise. But there are so many issue with that line alone. I mean it ignores Pike and April and especially ignores that Spock was on the Enterprise with Pike, some incorrectly stating he was First Officer when the First Officer was, at least while Pike was Captain, Number One.

So Already it feels like this show is not aimed at me. They're playing fast and loose with canon and it was this sort of crap that resulted in issues in Voyager that carried over to Enterprise, shows I both love, but I am totally aware of their problems.

This feels like an overly dramatic prequel to the Kelvin Timeline™ and will only further complicate the canon.

I, along with many other fans, was hoping for a post-Voyager show. Moving into a new era with new strakes and new enemies, maybe at last paying off with the Quantum Slipstream Drive and the exploration of the Andromeda Galaxy. I do not understand the need to keep loitering around this timeframe. I mean there is plenty of room between TOS and TNG to explore as well.

I know some people want an update, which is why I think a post Voyager show would have been better. They could update almost every species and imply there was a genetic virus that ravaged the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. This would allow new Klingons and new versions of many other races.

Doing it the way they did only makes it clear that they have no real respect for the canon or the fans like me who do respect the canon.

Now, don't get me wrong. I will be seeing the new show when it comes out. In fact I will be getting CBS All Access. But I will only be doing it for one month. So I plan to see the show after it's first season run and that is it. If it is good, I will be surprised, but pleased. But at this point I am not optimistic.

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #11

I figured I would put these here too, just to share my thoughts and opinions with you guys as well.

Quote from: sirus


Ok, so I know it's a lot of rumor, but they were spot on with their reporting of Ghostbusters and it looks like they're spot on again. It does explain a lot about the look and feel of Discovery not matching anything and why we have all these new designs. Not sure, but this could be the reason why Discovery looks so... bad...

Quote from: sirus
Also I wanted this quote from Seth MacFarlane to say why Orville will be a triumph and Discovery will let us down.

Quote
“There is a certain aspirational hopeful optimistic sci-fi that hasn’t really been done in 15-20 years. Star Trek did it for a long time, but then they evolved into something different, so it left open that space for that thing we all used to love so much. That’s what I’m trying to recapture, while at the same time a brand new spin on it with some ingredients that no one has ever seen before.”

Now it seems to me that Star Trek should be the beacon on the hill, a glorious future we could have. I think DS9 showed that we could be human and fail, but in the end it would be that which makes us human that would allow us to triumph. I feel like STD is caught up in this modern method of storytelling in which the world is dark and more brutal. To be honest it feels like the late 60s mind set of dark jaded schlock. But Star Trek when it came out then showed us a future where mankind works together, where compassion is balanced with logic.

Now STD feels like an Anti-Star Trek. It feels like the same bitter schlock Star Trek railed against, at least TOS, and in some regards I feel like even the darkest DS9 got was to show what must be done to protect that beacon, that hope.

Anyway I can't help but compare STD with Orville as both seem to be new Star Trek shows which start this fall. One I am honestly getting excited for, the other I am not.


Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #12
Well, I reason like these guys do in this particular regard. With all the negativity and hate about something that has yet to air, and these spiteful rumours created (I believe) just because of CBS and their actions against Axanar, it is worth pointing out that you can't 'hate' something without seeing it first. :)



Oh, and I loved the jab in one of the trailers to all the haters in the fanbase out there too, one I can't quote on the fly, but basically said that "change is inevitable", lol.

Best,

Auctor Lucan

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #13
I'm a rabid fan of Star Trek. My general rule is, if it contains the "Star Trek", I'm going to watch/read it(yes, even Enterprise and the Kelvin time-line movies).

One thing that caught me in the video that Absinthe posted was, while unconfirmed, that the actors are telling their agents to find them something after December because they don't think this will go anywhere. And the reason this stuck out to me is I remember an interview with Patrick Stewart a while back about TNG where he described that for the entire first season of TNG, he and the other actors pretty much lived out of their suitcases, completely expecting TNG to not make it past the first season. Even going so far as to have their agents trying to find more work for them after this was over.

So this isn't the first time Star Trek actors were unconvinced at the series they were in making it anywhere.

That being said, Star Trek is Star Trek to me. We already have alternate universes, canon spin-offs and a whole slew of novels that some take as personal canon for their own enjoyment. So in my eyes, this is just another alternate universe spin-off that carries the Star Trek label. I will watch it, but I honestly am not expecting it to perform very well and will be pleasantly surprised if it makes it past one or two seasons before it's pulled.

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #14
I am reminded of all the vitriol that was tossed at Stargate Universe after Atlantis was cancelled to make room for it (and Atlantis got some shade when SG-1 was unceremoniously dumped.) While it may not be confirmable, there is belief that the bad reactions to Universe before it came out and the whining while it ran helped get all of Stargate shut down (yes I'm aware that MGM had just been bought out from bankruptcy and the new owners didn't like Stargate, but that's still not enough of a reason to shelve your #2 franchise.)

The only issue I have with Discovery having not seen it is the distribution model CBS has chosen.  It is inexcusable to set it up that one audience has to pay extra for a separate, network-owned and run streaming service while the rest of the world gets to see the show on an already established streaming service.  If they want to use Discovery to get people to use CBS All-Access they should look at the example of UPN, and TNT's acquisition of Babylon 5 for reference.

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #15
Ok, so I've been doing a lot of musing on this topic on another forum and I thought I might share some of my recent thoughts on it here, just for fun and because why not quote myself.

Quote
Quote from: Someone Else
Does this smack of "No True Scotsman"?  Absolutely.  Do I give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut?  Not in the least.

Personally I read this as more of a "Ship of Theseus" kind of thing. Or rather how many parts can be changed without the whole being something different. I think the first time Klingon we're changed it was tolerated because Kirk called them Klingon and if anyone could identify a Klingon it was him.

TNG risked all by changing almost everything, yet right there was a Klingon with the forehead we had come to accept. They spoke in terms and words we had heard before and even had a very early cameo to let us know it was still the same universe.

DS9 launched and had Picard in the Pilot to usher us in. A side character from TNG was promoted to series regular on DS9 to ease us in.

DS9 introduced the Maquis in the pilot of Voyager we got Quark there to say yes, same world.

Enterprise again risked a lot. Cameos couldn't work, but they could use familiar design choices. Terms we knew were once more on full display and we had our old friends the Vulcans there, even if they weren't written quite right  add to that the colors on the jumpsuits so it looked kind of like a step between what we see today and Starfleet uniforms and it works.

And now comes Discovery. Everything is again changed. No cameos to carry us through. All the designs look different. The only Vulcan we see is Sarek, but as he is recast we must also swallow the tough pill of seeing a new Sarek again. New uniforms that don't seem really linked to any uniforms we've seen before in terms of design or color. And a new adopted sister for a character we already know will never speak of this character.

Have they changed so much that now the "Ship of Theseus" is no longer the same ship? Maybe. I think that's what people fear.

And the Orville has the bonus that it looks kind of like the old ship we all knew and liked. Like the parts striped from the ship we knew were collected and built into another ship.

As if there is no true Star Trek show as there can be no true "Ship of Theseus" once you have taken it apart to this extent.

Quote
I tend to View the ship of Thesesus very simply. We each have own own definition of the thing, Star Trek and for the most part we agree as to what it is, aside from some squabbles about Enterprise, NuTrek, and a handful of episodes through the years.

However I think every time Star trek changes it loses some of the identity it had. The more it changes the more of that identity is lost, or the more of the the percieved identity is lost. But new pieces are added each time. Thus things change and things remain.

Everyone has a line. A lin at which time it has been changed so much where the ship no longer looks right and can no longer be considered the right thing, But the line is very different for different for a number of people. I suspect (NAME REMOVED) would say after DS9 that line was crossed more and more. For me that line started to be crossed with the reboot. But for some the line has not been crossed and may never be crossed. Star Trek is Star Trek because it says so on the label. To them Orville can only be a pale imitation, while as to me I see more of the real thing in Orville than in what they would see as the real thing. And this is simply because I drew the line somewhere else.

I also think a lot of us who are naysayers of Discovery and think it will "kill the franchise" almost want it to. We want CBS and Paramount to stop making new versions that simply do not seem to understand the universe we love and instead we want the fans who do understand it to make Star Trek. I mean I don't think CBS\Paramount would have given a crap about any fan film if they didn't have a movie and a TV show in the works. So maybe Star Trek needs to die in one sense so it can live in another.

Or maybe stuff like The Orville and Renegades is the directions to go, the idea of Star Trek in all but name.

In my mind the future of Star Trek is not with CBS\Paramount it is with the fans and it will be by their hands that it either lives or dies.

In the end my my exploration of this whole topic has been much more of "Why are Star Trek fans already fully accepting Discovery?" and "Why are there others who find this version of Star Trek to not be Star Trek at all?" I don't mean to step on toes, but rather to try and figure out what is behind all of this. I have seen pictures of fans already in costumes of the new uniforms, and I personally would rather own an Orville uniform.

My goal with the exploration of the "Ship of Theseus" idea of reasoning is to figure out if it is possible for something to be Star Trek and to not be Star Trek at the same time, working from both the perspective of is Star Trek Discovery Star Trek? and Is The Orville Star Trek? To me these are questions I need to ask and examine, if only for my own sake.

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #16
I feel that the jerk in me wants to point out that Enterprise was launched with a cameo: Zephram Cochrane. Albeit a recording, they used the actor established inFirst Contact, for a character created in the Original series, to be in the first episode of Enterprise.

In theory, they could do the same in Discovery. We don't know yet. ( I don't think they will, of course, but it could be done XD).

I;ve heard a lot of rumors lately about why the 'image' of the show is so different. Not because they wanted to update it, but because some of the rights to things were caught up in litigation and they just said fuck it, lets make it look newer and shiny. Now, these are just rumors, but still *shrug*

I read through your post, and its really well written :) I just dont agree with the negativity around the show :) And I think that, as much as I enjoyed Galaxy Quest for what it was, a loving tongue in cheek tribute,  the Orville feels that way to me too, done with affection, but a blatant rip off, not the legacy of star trek. I guess I'm one of those whose toes you didn't mean to step on ;) My hat is off to you though, because i cannot in any way shape or form articulate my views as well as you have ^_^

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #17
To be honest at this point a lot of the stronger emotions have died down and as I have come to understand why some fans look forward to Discovery, I have become more accepting of it myself. It is not the Trek I knew, but then again it does not appear to be meant to be that. But to others it is close enough to be the feel of the thing they knew as to still be that thing. I am no longer as sure as I was that it is not.

I just wish they gave us something more of a hint as to what the plot of Discovery was about. The fact they are hiding it from us makes me feel like there is a problem, but then again I am the suspicious sort. I knew the basic plot of The Orville from the teaser and I was on board, I couldn't tell you anything more than something felt wrong from the teaser and the trailer of Discovery.

But we shall see.

Again I don't mean to step on toes. My goal has always been to try and figure this whole thing out. I love Star Trek, though some of it's incarnations I love slightly less. I fear Discovery will be Star Trek's red headed stepchild.

Re: Star Trek Discovery: First Look Trailer

Reply #18
@Kaligos hey!! Enterprise was cool.. it was getting better

 
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