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Topic: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion (Read 1162 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #25
Auctor, might I recommend carving this conversation out into a proper "about telepaths" topic?

Beyond that, it was explained that mind meld isn't exactly telepathic probing.  A mind meld is literally a merging of the minds which is why the stronger mind is able to "dig" through it while in the meld, because they are accessing the other person's thoughts and memories as if they were their own.  The down side is that they leave themselves equally vulnerable to someone who could potentially be stronger and seize control of the meld.

There are instances where telepathy itself has been used intrusively/offensively (technically, that is how kzinti telepathy has been portrayed).  In those situations, I agree that those should explicitly be agreed to between the participants just like any physical combat would.  In the case of the aforementioned kzinti telepathy, the most effective defense was actively thinking about things that disgust kzinti (such as vegetables) to effectively dissuade them from staying in the mind.

Now, another point of note is something I consider when it comes to Deacon's abilities, for example.  His empathy (his ziirgah) isn't solely based on the psionic field that Star Trek telepathic abilities utilize, but also in part on his other senses, so even if a person's mind is blocked, he might pick up elements from their scent, tone of voice, or mannerisms that betray their emotional state.  Of course, as with mental discipline, a physically disciplined person with the intent to deceive can mask those things as well.  So if he ever "overreads" someone, please let me know, but understand he isn't always relying on extra sensory input to do it.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #26
Lol, of course. Work, work, work. ;)

It will be added to the wiki but I still have things listed on the Main OOC I need help with.

Best,

Auctor Lucan

  • Aeolus
  • [*]
  • Inactive Theurgist
Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #27
Auctor, I'd be more than happy to write a wikipage for various telepathic/empathic abilities and player guidelines/restrictions, and submit it to you for final approval (help ease your workload).  I'll include @Brutus and any other telepathic crew member that wants input/suggestions on it.

Last off topic comment from me, lol.
"I am Scion of the Ninth House, Warden of the Sacred Way, and Keeper of the Divine Scepter of Betazed...who are you?"
- - - Ambassador Tamren Jhenal, Diplomatic Attaché [Show/Hide]

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #28
Thank you, that would be really helpful. :)

SummerDawn has given us ok to use some resources from his USS Wolff wiki, and there are two pages there that I think would be interesting to borrow from as long as we leave the usual disclaimer to the Wolff Wiki at the bottom of the page (see, for example the bottom the Planetary Classification page, minus the image credit). Here are the two relevant pages:

http://www.usswolff.com/wiki/Telepathy

http://www.usswolff.com/wiki/T/E_Rating_System

There is also this page, which should then be referenced, linked and credited:

https://www.starbase118.net/cadets/your-character/rules-of-telepathy-empathy/

+ The principles mentioned earlier in this thread.

Only including writers with characters that have telepathic and/or emphatic abilities to make input and suggestions on it might be considered biased by writers not keen on some of the aspects of these abilities, so I suggest the draft is posted on the R&D board when you are done with it so the whole sim can weigh in on it. Is that okay with you?

Best,

Auctor Lucan

  • Triton
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Inactive Theurgist
  • Target.
  • Awards: Awarded for participation in Episode 04: Simulcast.
Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #29
Okay, wait a minute, is it really canon that humans and not just Cardassians can undergo training to protect their minds from being read? I would like canon references for that because I am not quite sure neither Trent nor Marquez can.

As for a wiki page, noted and added to the list!

Best,

Auctor Lucan

Warning: Wall-text of implied-at-but-not-elaborated-upon origins.

I've established, whether through an earlier draft or proof of his history where Marquez worked on the Eagle Project. It was headed briefly by Captain Solok (DS9: Take me out to the holodeck), who convinced Starfleet Command to monitor the Romulans and ensure they wouldn't try a repeat of their invasion of Vulcan, or anything similar.

Senior officers with high-enough clearance to this joint-species endeavor were subject to the Vulcan's idea of physical training and ways to resist against Romulan interrogative tactics. Romulans obviously lack the telepathic aspect, but their Remans and certain machineries of theirs do not. This in mind, Solok took the senior officers of the Project's volunteers aboard a performance evaluation cruise, in which the holodecks were to simulate extremely harsh environments known to be favored by Romulans (Jungles, cities, wreckage, Vulcan itself for a theoretical invasion, and oddly they spent 60% of the holodeck training in the latter, likely given the intense heat and high altitudes)

Not everyone on Solok's ship was particularly fond of the Skipper being too hard on the non-Vulcans, no matter how endurant they were, Solok seemed to just want to prove Vulcan superiority and forge even non-Vulcans for his next performance evaluation to dispel any rumors of species-ism. One of those resistances in the training cruise was to defend against telepathy (The Harry Potter equivalent to occlumency): Like Snape probing Harry's mind, one of Solok's officers (who believed his skipper was uneccessarily over-demanding, given the Eagle Project's growing list of washouts) as part of the program was to just up the resistance to mind reading. Then, going into the second stage of this, Striker learned how to 'wall off' certain facets of his personality only he makes evident when he desires; Solok's officer also left a scripture that had been dictated by President Archer regarding mental fortitude, which Solok had casually dismissed as a cautionary tale for Vulcan children.  (I've given this origins story a bit of thought before Theurgy, and my friend on STO mains as a Vulcan. She went on to say that even though she hates Enterprise and its effect on Vulcan canon, there are ways informed Humans can resist telepathy, even without a Katra).

Like the film Inception, however, Marquez is as such vulnerable to telepathy at night; aren't we all? However I'd like to think his daytime lucidity, as joked, works just fine when he has his mind set on the job at hand, hence 'Who are you, the Terminator?' when Someone were to scan him (Aenar, Betazoid, Vulcan, certain Reman). It's even said on his Wiki that telepaths might detect at most a brooding lone gunslinger.

TL:DR, He's as human as they come, but he's been to Vulcan Boot Camp, and has just enough willpower to detain a mental intruder, though not counter-attack-worthy yet... that's something to develop, probably after some Sessions with Ejek over Cardassian Chess.


[Show/Hide]

While this isn't a predominant facet, it belies a potential ability..., and as I've told Brutus, that while Marquez might be a bit more hard-to-read and more professional, Mariner [Show/Hide]



  • Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 03:13:52 AM by Striker N7
Lt. Commander Leon "Striker" Marquez
Chief Tactical Officer, USS Theurgy
"No one left behind."

Ensign James "Jimmy" Mariner
Security Officer, USS Theurgy
"Showtime!"

Lieutenant (J.G.) Alessia "Angel" Garcia
Valravn Fighter Pilot, USS Theurgy
"You're not the only one with a gun,"

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #30
TL:DR, He's as human as they come, but he's been to Vulcan Boot Camp, and has just enough willpower to detain a mental intruder, though not counter-attack-worthy yet... that's something to develop, probably after some Sessions with Ejek over Cardassian Chess.

No he hasn't.

..., and as I've told Brutus, that while Marquez might be a bit more hard-to-read and more professional, Mariner ...isn't. ;)

That's fine.

Best,

Auctor Lucan

  • Triton
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Inactive Theurgist
  • Target.
  • Awards: Awarded for participation in Episode 04: Simulcast.
Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #31
TL:DR, He's as human as they come, but he's been to Vulcan Boot Camp, and has just enough willpower to detain a mental intruder, though not counter-attack-worthy yet... that's something to develop, probably after some Sessions with Ejek over Cardassian Chess.

No he hasn't.


http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Extreme_Measures_(episode)
Good point: Expelling party crashers is preferable to detaining them. Easier, too.

Well, I think that the easiest way to handle the "depends" conditions mentioned by Brutus is OOC agreement between writers, whether anything more than previously listed things are picked up or not. It could be beneficial to plot advancement in some cases that more things are picked up rather than less, so there is the possibility for that. To avoid risk of godmoding, however, we keep it at surface thoughts as a default unless anything more is agreed OOC.

Works, right?

Best,

Auctor Lucan

Works.
Lt. Commander Leon "Striker" Marquez
Chief Tactical Officer, USS Theurgy
"No one left behind."

Ensign James "Jimmy" Mariner
Security Officer, USS Theurgy
"Showtime!"

Lieutenant (J.G.) Alessia "Angel" Garcia
Valravn Fighter Pilot, USS Theurgy
"You're not the only one with a gun,"

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #32
Another thought, reached in cooperation with our Esteemed, Fearless Leader:

The Asurians who aren't too fond of Theurgy call in their marker with the Sheromi, which leads to Theurgy and a large, heavily armed and armoured vessel, playing cat-and-mouse in the depths of the Nebula.  No shields available for battle, lets they risk getting cooked by the radiation (anti-radiation shield harmonics being incompatible with those needed for combat), and running as silent as possible (no warp core, minimal power levels, no active sensors, etc), and passive sensors are almost blinded by the background mess.

Basically, our own version of the the engagement between Khan and Kirk in the Mutara Nebula, or Worf commanding the Defiant in the atmosphere of a gas giant against the Jem'Hadar, and the obligatory hunter-vs-hunter scene in every submarine movie.  A battle lasting hours while trying to come into position to deliver a single killing blow... without getting blown to bits by the syrillium gas.

Re: The Asurian Threat Sub-Plot Discussion
Reply #33
On idea I'd been kicking around in general, but works really well here since the Asurans have cloaking devices:

Shall can return to his overwatch position in Stellar Cartography after making some adjustments to the sensors to make it possible to look for objects moving through the nebula.  This modification would be some cobbled together tech meant for studying gas or even fluids so he can read the different currents and other fluid dynamics in the nebula.  This in turn gives him the ability to detect objects by spotting the wakes they leave in the nebula gas.

The limits of this however, is that it is a directional sensor and somewhat limited in range, so he can only look at a portion of the nebula at one time.  If this sensor beam is detectable, enemy ships might be able to stop or slow in time to cut down on their wake (if they figure out that's what the Theurgy is doing).

And the best part is, if the Captain wants to keep it secret that the Asurans are coming after Theurgy to do harm, Shall doesn't necessarily have to be told, he just needs to know that he's on the lookout for any incoming ships.